Comments on: Listen To Your Heart http://anarchyinyourhead.com/2009/08/08/listen-to-your-heart/ The Revolution Will Be Doodled! Mon, 05 Dec 2011 14:43:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Mike http://anarchyinyourhead.com/2009/08/08/listen-to-your-heart/comment-page-1/#comment-5013 Mike Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:00:18 +0000 http://anarchyinyourhead.com/?p=790#comment-5013 Very well said, as usual, Dale. My version of what you said in paragraphs 4-5 is: by using the system of tyranny to obtain less coercion (or to obtain whatever), you're trying to alleviate the symptoms, but you're ignoring their cause, which is the system itself. So even if you succeed 100% of the time, the system still exists, and it will coerce again. Perhaps the coercive representative you voted against will run again and be voted in next time. Perhaps the ballot initiative that removed a coercive law passed, but that law will be proposed again. When the system is eliminated, its symptoms will be, too; not the other way around. Strike the root. Very well said, as usual, Dale. My version of what you said in paragraphs 4-5 is: by using the system of tyranny to obtain less coercion (or to obtain whatever), you’re trying to alleviate the symptoms, but you’re ignoring their cause, which is the system itself. So even if you succeed 100% of the time, the system still exists, and it will coerce again. Perhaps the coercive representative you voted against will run again and be voted in next time. Perhaps the ballot initiative that removed a coercive law passed, but that law will be proposed again. When the system is eliminated, its symptoms will be, too; not the other way around. Strike the root.

]]> By: Dale http://anarchyinyourhead.com/2009/08/08/listen-to-your-heart/comment-page-1/#comment-5012 Dale Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:20:10 +0000 http://anarchyinyourhead.com/?p=790#comment-5012 I guess you can always argue, and people do, that you aren't supporting the system even while doing either. The latter seems pretty unambiguously aggressive while the former seems ambiguous and I cannot argue that it is assuming you're voting in a clear direction. The questions, which I think will remain unanswered from an analytical perspective, is what good are you doing both in the short term and long term, vs. what harm is done both in the short term and the long term. Even more importantly, what is the price for you personally and is the reward worth it? I have never begrudged anyone who stood for a judge in order to avoid the threat of jail. I know many people who don't want to do it. Many people do things strictly out of fear. It's something that has a high price for me and I understand why that's hard for others to understand. There were times when I was not prepared to go to jail do to weighing personal issues that I needed to deal with in the immediate future and the risk seemed high, and so I left the court room once before the judge came in and I think there was one time I failed to go at all. In both cases, I missed the arraignments or trials because I was unwilling to stand for the judge and unprepared to go to jail. I didn't go back until I was prepared for the possibility that I could go to jail. What it came down to is the personal price was higher for me than it is for many others. I feel like every time I tell a lie, it undermines my veracity, and I do catch myself saying little lies now and then for one reason or another. I remember the other day nodding quietly just to avoid conflict when in fact I was in powerful disagreement with the other person. That has been bothering me. I wasn't looking to preach my values to anyone that day but my opinions were being elicited and I was trying to stick to subjects which I figured we could largely agree on. I told myself that I was just nodding to indicate that I understand that this is how he feels, but I failed to make it clear that I wasn't affirming what he was saying (justifying aggressive wars) and that has continued to bother me. Consider it a personal problem of mine that I have these hang-ups. I guess you can always argue, and people do, that you aren’t supporting the system even while doing either. The latter seems pretty unambiguously aggressive while the former seems ambiguous and I cannot argue that it is assuming you’re voting in a clear direction. The questions, which I think will remain unanswered from an analytical perspective, is what good are you doing both in the short term and long term, vs. what harm is done both in the short term and the long term. Even more importantly, what is the price for you personally and is the reward worth it?

I have never begrudged anyone who stood for a judge in order to avoid the threat of jail. I know many people who don’t want to do it. Many people do things strictly out of fear. It’s something that has a high price for me and I understand why that’s hard for others to understand. There were times when I was not prepared to go to jail do to weighing personal issues that I needed to deal with in the immediate future and the risk seemed high, and so I left the court room once before the judge came in and I think there was one time I failed to go at all. In both cases, I missed the arraignments or trials because I was unwilling to stand for the judge and unprepared to go to jail. I didn’t go back until I was prepared for the possibility that I could go to jail. What it came down to is the personal price was higher for me than it is for many others.

I feel like every time I tell a lie, it undermines my veracity, and I do catch myself saying little lies now and then for one reason or another. I remember the other day nodding quietly just to avoid conflict when in fact I was in powerful disagreement with the other person. That has been bothering me. I wasn’t looking to preach my values to anyone that day but my opinions were being elicited and I was trying to stick to subjects which I figured we could largely agree on. I told myself that I was just nodding to indicate that I understand that this is how he feels, but I failed to make it clear that I wasn’t affirming what he was saying (justifying aggressive wars) and that has continued to bother me.

Consider it a personal problem of mine that I have these hang-ups.

]]> By: FreeJake http://anarchyinyourhead.com/2009/08/08/listen-to-your-heart/comment-page-1/#comment-5011 FreeJake Mon, 10 Aug 2009 04:41:21 +0000 http://anarchyinyourhead.com/?p=790#comment-5011 Dale, well put. (I'm the guy who went to the county council meeting and called in to the show.) Here is my account of what happened at the council meeting. http://howlittleheknows.blogspot.com/2009/08/st-louis-county-smoking-ban.html My question is this: do you differentiate between voting for specific ballot initiatives AND voting for so-called representatives? I believe it's wrong to vote for one bureaucrat over another, but would you call it "supporting the system" if one were to show up to the voting booth ONLY to vote no on a ballot initiative (in this case, the smoking ban)? Dale, well put. (I’m the guy who went to the county council meeting and called in to the show.) Here is my account of what happened at the council meeting. http://howlittleheknows.blogspot.com/2009/08/st-louis-county-smoking-ban.html

My question is this: do you differentiate between voting for specific ballot initiatives AND voting for so-called representatives? I believe it’s wrong to vote for one bureaucrat over another, but would you call it “supporting the system” if one were to show up to the voting booth ONLY to vote no on a ballot initiative (in this case, the smoking ban)?

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